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Post by dawn on Nov 14, 2006 9:40:14 GMT -5
Did anyone see the article in the paper in regards to the courthouse in Scranton being haunted?
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Post by Rick on Nov 14, 2006 11:20:17 GMT -5
no.. can you tell us about it?
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Post by rianith on Nov 14, 2006 12:45:28 GMT -5
I'd love to check out the house I used to live in in Scranton. 1256 Diamond Avenue.
We played with a Psychic Circle there, and the spirit comeing through told us there was a secret passage way in the basement that led to a sub-basement that had something hidden down there. There also was like a 'vortex' or something in this one tiny room that.. well.. suffice to say can't be much more then a closet, but there's no shelves or hanging rods. Of course, the Builder needs to be shot - NEVER put a doorway DIRECTLY across from a window.. bad.. bad...BAD! That's inviting "visiters", and they're not always nice. I don't know if the Owner would let a ghost huntering group mess around in her house, though. Heck, I'm not sure if she even beleives, of if those that were IN that house are even active now...
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Post by Rick on Nov 14, 2006 14:24:31 GMT -5
I have never heard about having a doorway across from a window. can you elaberate?
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Post by rianith on Nov 14, 2006 18:10:54 GMT -5
It's said that if you have an entryway (A doorway) Directly (and I mean PERFECTLY) across from a window, It acts as a GateWay into the Other Realms.
Well, that's what some people beleive anyways. Oddly enough, A door straight across from a door doesn't seem to be an issue. Just the whole Door/Window thing.. to my knowledge anyways.
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Post by impintraining on Nov 15, 2006 20:23:26 GMT -5
This is a first for me. Which people is it that believe this?
I have heard that having two mirrors across from each other could create a portal ... the fellow heading up the CPPRA mentioned that in a little seminar he was giving. Can't say that I believe it, personally. I don't know how you would go about proving something like that when you can't prove ghosts exist in the first place. How many elevators have you been on with mirrors on opposite walls? How many of them are reputed to be haunted?
Anyway... I've been in a ton of houses with doors across from a window. My house has one... and no activity to mention.
I wonder who starts up these spiritual feng sui rules anyway?
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Post by lynda on Nov 15, 2006 20:38:56 GMT -5
Ah.. but you see.. on the flip side of that - one could say not experiencing activity may very likely be because one refuses to believe or -- to take it a step further - acknowledge its existence. I'm not saying don't be skeptical.. by all means everyone should have a bit of skepticism.. skepticism is the chaotic or yang balance.. And (stated with a chuckle - see the big grin here) just as a point of information - Feng Shui has nothing to do with spiritual folklore.. at its fundamental core, its nothing more than arranging ones surroundings for harmony and balance..
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Post by rianith on Nov 15, 2006 21:46:22 GMT -5
*with a smile* and just because you have no activity, doesn't mean there isn't a 'gateway' there... There could simply be an 'out of order' sign on the other side, or a warning for construction, or a detour sign.. *grins widely*
You never know.
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Post by impintraining on Nov 15, 2006 23:36:32 GMT -5
Ah.. but you see.. on the flip side of that - one could say not experiencing activity may very likely be because one refuses to believe or -- to take it a step further - acknowledge its existence. Lynda, if you are lecturing me on my skepticism... you're gonna hate the rest of the group. I find it hard to see myself as skeptical to the point of close-mindedness when I've spent so much time and money in devotion of ghost hunting.
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Post by impintraining on Nov 15, 2006 23:40:40 GMT -5
*with a smile* and just because you have no activity, doesn't mean there isn't a 'gateway' there... There could simply be an 'out of order' sign on the other side, or a warning for construction, or a detour sign.. *grins widely* You never know. Granted... maybe they haven't yet found it yet to use it. On the other hand, maybe it was just some fable someone made up one day. Do you have any history to share about this belief's orgins? I'm not saying you should give up your beliefs, but you should be willing to look at everything objectively and with critical thought. The thing of it is this... if you come forth with an outlandish claim, something that is in direct opposition of the 'norm' ... then the burden of truth would be on you to prove that thing exists ... or that rule holds true. It is impossible to prove a negative ... in other words, I cannot possibly hope to prove that there is no origin of that folklore because there would be nothing to substantiate the negitivity of it. If it exists, there must be proof to the existance, and therefore, burden of proof lies upon the positive side of any claim or theory.
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Post by Rick on Nov 16, 2006 10:56:37 GMT -5
I think Occam's razor should apply here. the simplest soluiton *may* be that the statement is untrue:
Think of it this way: how many houses have windows across from doors? how many places have mirrors across from each other? now take all those places and ask this question: how many of those are "hotspots"?
I remember seeing a show on paranormal events in Hawaii. One of the reported events was if you took rocks from on volcanio you would have bad luck.
After an investigation the source was a bus driver who had to clean up the dirt from the rocks. He stopped people from bring the rocks on the bus by saying it was bad luck.
There are people (even in our own group) who see ghosts everywhere we look. and there are people like Spriskeptic and Imp who will only call a ghost a ghost when the bloody thing shows up with a sign "I am ghost".
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Post by rianith on Nov 16, 2006 12:07:59 GMT -5
All valid points.
What you say boils down to 'Don't Beleive Blindly'. And to be honest, I don't know where it origonated. All Iknow is what I've experienced.
Most windows are not *directly* across from a doorway, they are off by a fraction of an inch or more. But the houses i've been in where the window was DIRECTLY across from the door, perfectly across the room from it, there has been spirititual activity.
But then again, it could just be me. I've dealt with the paranormal my intire life..... Maybe I'm just a lightning rod or something to it? One never knows.
All we have, when you get down to it, is our Faith and our Beleif in this or that. Facts are Facts, yes. But if all there were were Facts ... then life would be boreing. There'd be no ... mystery of life, there'd be no excitement.
^_^ Suffice it to say, I have no proof, but then, I have no proof of my abilities or of my spirit friend 'Anubis'.
My question is to you.. Do you have enough proof to call me Delusional or a phony/lier?
Note: There is no rudeness in that last statement. It's said in all in fun. There is no condemnation or anger in this post. There is no ridicule or argumentitive statements... This last statement is pretty much just a rhetorical question made in jest.
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Post by lynda on Nov 16, 2006 13:14:15 GMT -5
Lynda, if you are lecturing me on my skepticism... you're gonna hate the rest of the group. I find it hard to see myself as skeptical to the point of close-mindedness when I've spent so much time and money in devotion of ghost hunting. Please read "all" that I said - Please don't take my comments out of context - there was more to that comment after all -- "I'm not saying don't be skeptical.. by all means everyone should have a bit of skepticism.. skepticism is the chaotic or yang balance.. " And please don't assume I'm lecturing (this is no where *near* a lecture, trust me on this one - <LOL>) I only present the counter balance to the age old arguement of .. is there - or isn't there.. its like religion, politics, and many other ideals and philosophies.. there are no hard-core - one-way answers.. most are slanted perspectives at best. For as many people out there that state.. Ghosts don't exit .. there are just as many that have had real-life personal - close encounters of the third kind - contact with them... and some of their stories.. can chill you to the bone!! Now... here we could get into a nice healthy debate.. But I digress..
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Post by rkenyon on Nov 16, 2006 15:55:01 GMT -5
It’s just or Courthouse…Or is it?
Rocco Genovese is not superstitious, and he’s not one who spooks easily.
He had heard all the stories about the strange nighttime occurrences at the Lackawanna County Courthouse when he began a job with the sheriff’s department five years ago. He didn’t quite believe the tales, especially when other nighttime courthouse workers blamed it on ghosts.
“I thought, ‘It’s an old building,’?” he said. “Some of those fixtures are more than 100 years old.”
Now, though, he talks of footsteps heard in empty hallways, unexplained breezes that raise the little hairs on the back of his neck and lights that come on by themselves inside locked offices.
“The old marriage license office (on the third floor) is notorious for that,” he said. “You’d go outside and notice the lights were on. But you’d go up there, the lights would be off and the door locked.”
Mr. Genovese isn’t the only one to report seemingly supernatural episodes at the courthouse. If nothing else, the architecture and age of the building lend an atmosphere conducive to a convincing ghost story.
Ghosts hanging around
Ground was broken for the courthouse in 1881, according to local historian Cheryl Kashuba, after the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Co. and trustees of the Susquehanna and Wyoming Valley Railroad and Coal Co. donated the property to the county. Before the courthouse was built, the land was mostly swamp. I posted this in the general page sorry if you missed it
For years after the courthouse was built, people sentenced to death were hanged at a gallows located on the property. The state stopped hanging people in 1920, though Ms. Kashuba wasn’t sure if the hangings at the courthouse were moved elsewhere before that.
That could explain ghostly occurrences, according to Anne Palagruto, executive director of the Philadelphia Institute of Paranormal Research. A common type of haunting is called a residual haunting — kind of a playback of an event from the past.
“For example, you might see a woman in the same dress walk down the same hallway every day at the same time,” she said. “The woman will not interact with the living in any way, not even look at them.”
Betty Warner, who has cleaned the courthouse for 30 years, said she’s heard stories about a lady in white who walks the second-floor hallway.
Several years ago, another member of the cleaning crew left some personal belongings upstairs, she said. When he went to retrieve them, he saw the ghostly figure.
“He said she sailed right over his head,” Ms. Warner said. “Oh, my, was he scared.”
Ms. Warner said she also has seen a ghostly looking man on the first floor. Jeff McLane, chief deputy court administrator, said he once saw what appeared to be a man and a woman on the first floor when he was helping to move an office on a weekend several years ago.
“But there was no one else around,” he said. “When I walked down the hall to check, there was no one there. It was creepy.”
Other explanations
There’s no way to prove that a place is haunted, Ms. Palagruto said.
Her group does investigate reports of hauntings, looking for explanations for everything from temperature fluctuations to sounds that go bump in the night.
“It is common to find fluctuations in the electromagnetic field in places where people have reported spirit activity,” she said. “In cases where a home is not haunted, we can usually find a reason for the abnormal reasons,” like power lines or appliances.
The group has never investigated the Lackawanna County Courthouse, nor has any other group in any courthouse official’s memory, but not everyone needs a paranormal investigation to explain at least some of the ghostly goings-on.
President Judge Chester Harhut said he also heard strange noises and felt the occasional cool breeze when he worked late in his offices on the third floor years ago.
“I’d hear a noise and think ‘What is that?’?” he said. “And there was a smell sometimes, a musty smell. Judge (Vito) Geroulo would come out of his office and say ‘Can you smell that?’?”
Problems with pigeons roosting in the courthouse turrets and sounds carrying in the nighttime quiet are more rational explanations, he said.
“Everything gets strange at night,” Judge Harhut said. “The lighting is eerie, the hallways are all dark. It certainly sparks the imagination.”
Contact the writer: enissley@timesshamrock.com
This would be very intersting place to investigate
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Post by impintraining on Nov 17, 2006 0:27:34 GMT -5
There are people (even in our own group) who see ghosts everywhere we look. and there are people like Spriskeptic and Imp who will only call a ghost a ghost when the bloody thing shows up with a sign "I am ghost". I like to think I'm a little more open minded that Spriskeptic. ;D All we have, when you get down to it, is our Faith and our Beleif in this or that. Facts are Facts, yes. But if all there were were Facts ... then life would be boreing. There'd be no ... mystery of life, there'd be no excitement. No argument there. If no one bothered looking for unexplored phenomena, then we'd have never made it to space. I'll never say stick with the facts ... critical thought insists on thinking outside the box. But critical thought also insists on validating the references. Nope. I wouldn't think of it. Passing on folklore is not lying - it's sharing a story. But it shouldn't be passed on as absolute truth unless it can be proven. Living your life based on folklore doesn't make you delusional. It makes you cautious, maybe a little eccentric, and superstitious. Look at how many people will be extra careful and walk around a ladder, or change paths once a black cat passes in front of them? They're not delusional either. I'm not saying don't be skeptical.. by all means everyone should have a bit of skepticism.. skepticism is the chaotic or yang balance.. " And please don't assume I'm lecturing (this is no where *near* a lecture, trust me on this one - <LOL>) Fair enough.
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Post by dawn on Nov 17, 2006 8:14:43 GMT -5
Thank you, yes that is the article. I started this post in regards to the courthouse, how it got turned into talk about doorways and windows is beyond me. I would like to stay on topic here. The doorways should be a different thread. I would like to look into investigating the courthouse.
Dawn
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Post by rianith on Nov 17, 2006 12:26:37 GMT -5
*chuckles softly* Quite true, Imp. Quite true. But as I've said before. Even after the Inquisitions.. the US is the only country/culture to beleive the black cat is bad luck. A bombay feline, is a rather difficult cat to come by, pure breed, I beleive. THey're gorgious too. Fur like find silk, temperments as gentle and regal as they 'remember' how their species was once treated by the Egyptians, and other cultures. If you look throughout history, A good amount of the beleif systems with multiple dieties had several gods with links to the felines. The "Youngest" of the beleif systems - those that caused the inquisitions - are the ones that started the 'Black Cat is bad luck' thing. I'm glad most cultures grew out of that. I have an opinion about a certain incidence in history that I can actually prove with the history books themselves, but this is a Paranormal group, not a Religious one. ^_^' So I'll sign off now. -Rian
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Post by Rick on Nov 17, 2006 15:01:07 GMT -5
Thank you, yes that is the article. I started this post in regards to the courthouse, how it got turned into talk about doorways and windows is beyond me. I would like to stay on topic here. The doorways should be a different thread. I would like to look into investigating the courthouse. Dawn I don't know if I can move the messages. I can move the thread but that kind of defeats the purpose.
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Post by lynda on Nov 17, 2006 17:21:16 GMT -5
I'd say if we wanted to investigate Scranton and the surrounding area(s) - we'd have a full-time job on our hands.. between the intense wars in the 1800's to even more modern day occurances.. these 'hallowed' lands (understated facetiously) have more than a single story to tell.. (here's a bit more on Dawn's haunted courthouse - which if anyone wants to read the story, it printed on Oct 31st in the Scranton Times... www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1728301/posts.
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Post by paranormalhunter25 on Feb 24, 2008 23:29:54 GMT -5
The courthouse, would be another nice place to investigate. I know it is a very tight place. You definately would need someone to talk to the right people in the courthouse to do an investigation. The only thing is that they have the processing center and the DUI Center on the weekend from Friday till sunday morning. It would probably be hard to do during that time with the people that are there and the people that come in and the noise.
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